Any system that outputs science and technology without real democratic input is a system that is doomed to fail.
IOW, it has failure baked in as a part of its modus operandi.
IOW, all the numbers supporting the tech don’t really matter.

All you have to do is ask yourself if a system doesn’t have the capacity to care about people, why would it have the capacity to care about anything else, such as animals and the planet?

The answer would appear quite obvious.

Also, previous civilizations that declined and/or collapsed in the past didn’t decline because of fossil fuel depletion. So there were other factors.
Tainter and others may have suggested that it was, at least in part, complexity, itself, and that happens to dovetail very neatly with the ‘iron law of oligarchy’ and its main point about increasing lack of democratic control in an increasingly complex system.

“As the bard said, sometimes you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the winds blow.” ~ Fred Magyar (quoting article)

Oh sure…

“Maybe stick your finger in the air to see which way the wind blows and then go with that? Such as if your ethical compass was knocked out by a hurricane?” ~ Caelan MacIntyre

“Subterranean Homesick Blues

‘You don’t need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows’ ~ Bob Dylan” ~
Caelan MacIntyre

So, Fred… what do you think is easier for our species; real democracy and equability, and local, individual and community control and that kind of thing, or sending a contingent to Mars?

I might have guessed sending a contingent to Mars, but then, without the aforementioned, maybe that’s why we are still not on Mars.

Technology is child’s play; real democracy, equability and that kind of thing, on the other hand, is the adult stuff that’s not often spoken about, such as on fora like these.
This is why we sometimes hear of some people, oh, maybe like Dennis Meadows or Richard Heinberg for examples, suggesting that we have to mature as a species if we are to have any hope. Of course, I agree.

Until that time, much talk will be ‘diapered’.

“All political systems that I know of, and most kings, have moved their whole nation to desert. And the things that we saw as most proud– the cities and the canals and irrigation and so on– are the things that killed their cultures. And it continues, unabated. If people don’t seize power back, and make their own gardens, and sit in their own gardens of Eden, then we’re all doomed, and the whole world ends in dust.” ~ Bill Mollison

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